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The Power of #19 & #20.
Topic Started: Jan 20 2016, 03:09 PM (2,251 Views)
+ Sandy Shore
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What indications are there for #19 and #20's power? Are they necessarily even stronger than Freeza, since they're not the threat that Trunks was warning them of?

Piccolo was yet to be considered a Super Namek (a Namek with power like a Super Saiyan?) and yet he was stronger than #20, after having even lost some of his energy to him. And, were it not for his illness, they should have been no trouble at all for Goku.

What do you think? Perhaps put it in to numbers using Freeza's 120 as a reference point.
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Saberoph
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For me I go with...

Base Frieza 100%: 120,000,000.
Number 19: 190,000,000.
Dr. Gero: 200,000,000.

That's where I place them compared to Frieza.
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TheACE
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Saberoph
Jan 20 2016, 03:18 PM
For me I go with...

Base Frieza 100%: 120,000,000.
Number 19: 190,000,000.
Dr. Gero: 200,000,000.

That's where I place them compared to Frieza.
I'm kinda in the same spot, though I had 19 and Gero flipped. I always thought that 19 fought better than Gero, or alternately drained more energy from Goku.
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Saberoph
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He might have, but Gero was still stronger than No. 19. and that's before absorbing SS Vegeta's Ki blast and draining Piccolo.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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Yamcha's surprise at their power would lead me to believe they're stronger than he expected, and he expected them to be stronger than SSj Trunks from 3 years ago.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Stronger than what he sensed I suppose. Remember, Trunks wasn't giving it his all:
Strength Checker
 
Chapter: 334 (DBZ 140), P13.3-5
Context: after Trunks and Goku fight
Trunks: “As expected, the rumors were true. No, you’re even greater…This was the sword that cut even Freeza…”
Goku: “You weren’t serious, after all.”

And chances are, neither was Goku:
Strength Checker
 
Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P6.2-4
Context: as Goku fights No.19
Tenshinhan: ”In-incredible…What strength…S-so that’s a Super Saiyan…He’s in a completely different dimension than we are…Too different…”
Piccolo: “…I wonder…”

In all seriousness, wherever Tenshinhan is now, he should still be far far weaker than the Goku that "fought" Trunks, yet for some reason, only now is he coming to the conclusion that Super Saiyan is far too removed from his own strength.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jan 20 2016, 04:33 PM.
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Thiln
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Goku's fighting abilities were quickly deteriorating against #19, but even with that condition factored in I would still put him ahead of his Namek or Trunks arc counterparts. #19 was quickly recovering from that same Super Saiyan's attacks with little registration of injuries besides some scuffing of the clothes and a few superficial marks on the face. I feel comfortable enough to put him and #20 above Frieza.
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+ Emmeth
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I used to roll with high numbers for all of them, the bare minimum of 19 being around 200. Now I'm not so sure they even need to be above Freeza taking that Beerus quote into consideration. Either way, it's close.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jan 20 2016, 04:33 PM
In all seriousness, wherever Tenshinhan is now, he should still be far far weaker than the Goku that "fought" Trunks, yet for some reason, only now is he coming to the conclusion that Super Saiyan is far too removed from his own strength.
True. And supposing Mecha Freeza was suppressing his power at either 1 or 50% (due to him not being bulked up) Trunks wouldn't have needed to have been all that strong himself. As far as Super Saiyans go.

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P9.7
Yamcha: “So this guy called ‘Fr…Freeza’ has such terrible…ab…absurdly large ki…?”
Gohan: “This isn’t it…he gets much, much stronger…!”


That quote would seem to support this, too.

So, really, wouldn't #19 and #20 only be required to have surpassed 50% Freeza at most? This also solves the issue of Piccolo not yet being a Super Namek. Surely, if he was pushing 200,000,000+ due to his battle with Gero, there wouldn't have been this whole thing about Piccolo being the Namekian equivalent of a Super Saiyan upon fusing - he was already there

So, perhaps somewhere around 70 to 110,000,000 for these two is more appropriate?
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jan 20 2016, 04:33 PM
Stronger than what he sensed I suppose. Remember, Trunks wasn't giving it his all:
Strength Checker
 
Chapter: 334 (DBZ 140), P13.3-5
Context: after Trunks and Goku fight
Trunks: “As expected, the rumors were true. No, you’re even greater…This was the sword that cut even Freeza…”
Goku: “You weren’t serious, after all.”

And chances are, neither was Goku:
Strength Checker
 
Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P6.2-4
Context: as Goku fights No.19
Tenshinhan: ”In-incredible…What strength…S-so that’s a Super Saiyan…He’s in a completely different dimension than we are…Too different…”
Piccolo: “…I wonder…”

In all seriousness, wherever Tenshinhan is now, he should still be far far weaker than the Goku that "fought" Trunks, yet for some reason, only now is he coming to the conclusion that Super Saiyan is far too removed from his own strength.
Trunks wasn't giving it his all against Goku, but Yamcha was also there when Trunks beat Freeza
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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Trunks wasn't giving it his all against Freeza either.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jan 20 2016, 05:31 PM.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jan 20 2016, 05:30 PM
Trunks wasn't giving it his all against Freeza either.
And where's the proof of that?

Even IF that was the case, Yamcha still sensed Mecha Freeza, which would make both androids stronger than him.
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Clearin
Jan 20 2016, 05:42 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jan 20 2016, 05:30 PM
Trunks wasn't giving it his all against Freeza either.
And where's the proof of that?

Even IF that was the case, Yamcha still sensed Mecha Freeza, which would make both androids stronger than him.
Quote:
 
Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P9.7
Yamcha: “So this guy called ‘Fr…Freeza’ has such terrible…ab…absurdly large ki…?”
Gohan: “This isn’t it…he gets much, much stronger…!”

Freeza is never noted to have powered up, so we can at least be sure Freeza was suppressed. As for Trunks, well, Tenshinhan's response to sick Super Saiyan Goku's power would suggest Tenshinhan had no idea how strong a Super Saiyan really is, despite seeing 2 three years before.
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And Trunks need not have been even as strong as 100% Freeza.

100% Freeza > #20 > #19 > Super Saiyan Trunks > (not 100%) Mecha Freeza.

Seems to work out for me.
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Lazuli
Jan 20 2016, 05:46 PM
And Trunks need not have been even as strong as 100% Freeza.

100% Freeza > #20 > #19 > Super Saiyan Trunks > (not 100%) Mecha Freeza.

Seems to work out for me.
so mecha frieza is weaker than his namek self? He flat out stated that he was stronger after the accident on Namek

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